“We wanted to make it a modern film that modern audiences could relate to, and that includes everybody.”
That’s how The Odyssey casting director John Papsidera describes his approach to building the ensemble of the epic film, which included a diverse lineup of actors. “It wasn’t a directive, it wasn’t something we wrote down on a piece of paper. It was an organic, intentional choice. We wanted the film to appeal to and speak to the people who would come see it.”
One of those stars was John Leguizamo, who plays Eumaeus, Odysseus’s loyal servant. Leguizamo credits the film’s diversity with its success. “To see Lupita Nyong’o as Helen of Troy — the most beautiful woman in the world — that was everything,” he says.
Leguizamo and Papsidera opened up about their experiences making the film at the SCAD Savannah Film Festival in a Q&A moderated by Gold Derby editor-in-chief Debra Birnbaum.
Watch the full video above and read on for a transcript of our Q&A.
Gold Derby: Congratulations on the film’s success. It has made $1.8 billion and become the biggest R-rated film in cinema history. With Christopher Nolan directing, you probably knew this would be something special — but did you imagine this level of success?
John Leguizamo: No. When you read the script, you know it’s a work of genius. It was so brilliant — a real page-turner. You have Chris Nolan and this incredible cast that John helped put together with his incredible eye. You knew it was something magical. When you’ve got Lupita Nyong’o, Matt Damon, Mia Goth, Anne Hathaway, Tom Holland, Travis Scott, Corey Hawkins, Rob Pattinson, you know something good is going to happen.
John Papsidera: I don’t think any of us thought $1.8 billion. The reality is when I sat down and read the script, I thought, “Oh, sword and sandals.” I didn’t expect it. That’s a challenge in this day and age, and we conquered it.
What has surprised you most about the audience’s reaction?
Leguizamo: There’s this beautiful, shocking quiet after the film where the audience is gathering itself before they can leave the theater. You feel as if you’ve been through the Trojan War. I love that moment. Usually, the movie ends and everybody gets up and runs out, but here people sit there, almost in shock, after watching something so powerful.
Papsidera: The impact of the film — that’s what John is describing. The impressiveness of its scale, its scope, and what it says about today. It feels modern.
Leguizamo: With all due respect to PBS, I’m tired of British period pieces. I loved the American accent Chris chose. It made the story more accessible and modern, and took it out of that familiar period-piece space. And the diversity matters. Every time there’s a period piece, we Black and Latino people are erased, as if we never existed. To see Lupita Nyong’o as Helen of Troy — the most beautiful woman in the world — that was everything.
John Papsidera, was representation important to you and Chris as you approached the casting?
Papsidera: We wanted to make it a modern film that modern audiences could relate to, and that includes everybody. It wasn’t a directive, it wasn’t something we wrote down on a piece of paper. It was an organic, intentional choice. We wanted the film to appeal to and speak to the people who would come see it.
Leguizamo: And you did it. That’s such an important thing. That diversity makes The Odyssey belong to all of us. It makes us feel that we belong in that movie and that world, because that’s the real world. You walk down the street in any American city and see a diverse community and a diverse country. Sometimes movies are all white, and we’re excluded.
Let’s talk about John Leguizamo’s casting. John Papsidera, what was it about him that made him perfect for the role?
Papsidera: When you think of character actors who can disappear into a role and create something memorable, you think of John. He’s a unique, brilliant actor who has created character after character without going over the top or pulling you out of the story. There’s a grounded quality to his work, yet funny, insightful and full of pathos. It was an easy choice. And he could play an old man because John is very old now. [Laughs.]
Leguizamo: The makeup actually made me look younger. It was a special effect. No, it was incredible. Thank you, John, for giving me this incredible highlight of my life. I think it’s the most important film I’ve ever been a part of.
Nobody had the script. Nobody had read it. They told me Chris Nolan was interested in me for a role, but they didn’t know what it was. My agents and manager had no clue; they weren’t allowed to read it. I was going to meet Chris the day before Thanksgiving at the Odeon.
I met Chris for lunch. I was trying not to eat too much because I spit when I eat, so I just listened. He told me I’d be playing Eumaeus. I couldn’t remember him from The Odyssey. Chris explained that he’s the most loyal character in all of Western literature. I thought, “Wow, that’s a lot of responsibility.” Then he told me I’d be old and blind. I thought, “Oh s–t, I don’t know if I can do all that.”
He gave me the role at the end of lunch. I was trying to act cool: “Yeah, thanks.” But I ran home, hugged my wife, and we danced and laughed. I did somersaults. It was an incredible moment. Even if I hadn’t gotten the role, I was happy to have lunch with Chris.
Papsidera: Could you see through the contacts?
Leguizamo: Not really. One eye was totally opaque; with the other, I could see light and shapes. I needed help everywhere on set because I could have fallen off a 900-foot cliff to my death. Luckily, Matt Damon is a really good guy. He’d walk me back to my tent, to the cafeteria, and to the bathroom. He was very helpful — not that helpful, but helpful.
How did wearing the contacts and prosthetics affect your performance?
Leguizamo: I think it helped. I couldn’t use my phone, read, call anybody or listen to music, so I had to be with myself. That was tough. Trying to be alone with yourself without technology is rough. But it made me present and in the moment, and I think it helped me tap into some difficult emotions.
The second month, I had a hard time with the contacts. They didn’t want me to take them out because they only had two pairs, and they were afraid of me damaging them. I told them, “If you don’t take them out, I’m going to rip them out.” Two months without being able to see was rough.
Papsidera: Was being cut off from electronic communication an interesting process as an actor?
Leguizamo: You’re right: the phone takes you away from yourself. Not having access to one forced me to stay with my emotions and everything I was preparing. I had to stew in it. By the time they said “Action,” I was ready to blow up. I think the phone sedates you. On a Chris Nolan set, you’re not allowed to have a phone.
Papsidera: There were no director’s chairs. Chris stood next to the camera all day long for every shot.
Leguizamo: He didn’t go to a video village or sit in a trailer full of monitors. He was right there in the room. You could hear him breathing, hear him snickering or hear him being moved. I couldn’t see him, but I know that the other actors could see him looking at you. You felt seen, protected and secure. The reason I was able to tap so much emotion was because that’s not usually what I do as an actor, I’m more like the cool guy or the villain or the goofy guy, but to be vulnerable was a difficult feat for me. But he removes everybody from the set, so it’s just you, Matt Damon, and Chris, and you create this world where you can do anything. Everything is possible because he’s so patient.
He even got into the Trojan horse.
Leguizamo: I went to Morocco to meet him, and I couldn’t talk to him because he was in the horse. I asked, “What do you mean he’s in the horse?” He was in that horse. That’s commitment.
The Imax cameras could shoot only about three minutes at a time. How did that affect your performance?
Leguizamo: I had a 10-minute monologue with Telemachus, played by Tom Holland, at the top of a cliff. I started, and they said, “Cut.” I thought I’d messed up the first take. I was panicking. Then they told me, “No, it’s only a three-minute mag, and it takes five minutes to reload because it’s actual film.” I thought, “Really? I have a 10-minute monologue!”
I had to stay ramped up and figure out how to divide it into three beats. Nobody had warned me. I was already dealing with not being able to see and not having my phone. It was an extraordinary acting challenge. I decided where to break the dialogue. While they were getting ready, I’d repeat the previous lines to myself, find the place, and start again. We did a couple of takes, so I could find a better place the next time. Those were long speeches. And the camera sounds like a lawn mower. And he invented a blimp that covers it, so now it sounds like a purring cat so you can do intimate scenes.
John Papsidera, you’ve worked with Chris Nolan on so many films. How has your shorthand in the casting process developed?
Papsidera: It’s evolved over time. It wasn’t always there. Chris told me that Memento was probably the quickest film. He basically said, “Bring me your favorite actors,” and he trusted me. That trust grew, and we’ve built upon it. I’ve said that I’m more like Chris’s court jester than anything else. We’ve known one another for such a long time, and we have fun. A lot of people revere Chris; I try to take the piss out of him.
Has casting his films gotten easier or harder over the years, especially with an ensemble this large?
Papsidera: Harder, because the stakes keep getting raised. He’s less forgiving. Chris expects the best, and he doesn’t suffer fools. He wants to know an actor is prepared, professional and will show up. The movie is already in Chris’s head. He knows every moment of every film before we start. So for me, casting isn’t so much discovery or exploration; it’s finding the perfect piece that already matches what he has in his head.
It’s not exactly a matching game, but it’s about understanding how he sees a moment and what he needs, then fulfilling it. Other directors want actors to explore, improvise and try many things. Chris needs the piece to fit. My process is about finding that perfect piece.
Leguizamo: I also have to say that his shooting process is fascinating. It’s how great art is made. You need either a great plan or a lot of money, because he doesn’t always come with a shot list. When you do an indie film, you’d better have a shot list, because you won’t make your day or get your movie. But Chris asks you what you want to do as an actor. You discover the scene through your own instincts. That’s always where the best acting and best scenes come from.
When we filmed the scene where I see Odysseus — Matt Damon — for the first time, I couldn’t see him, but I could smell him. I had an emotional breakdown and threw myself forward. Lucikly Matt caught me; otherwise I would have bashed my head on a rock. That was all in the moment.
For another scene where I had a lot of exposition, I told Chris, “I don’t know how to do this. I think I have to be in a fever dream. Can I be lying down in bed?” He said, “Show me.” I did, and he said, “OK, let’s do that.” The 300-pound camera and the 200-pound cinematographer, Hoyte [van Hoytema], were on top of me — 500 pounds. Chris said, “John, I think you might have made a mistake.”
But he does go with you and create around your impulses. That’s a gift from heaven.
Papsidera: I usually hear actors talk about how intimidating the process can be — not that he’s intimidating, but that he doesn’t give a lot of feedback. If you don’t hear anything, you assume you’re doing OK. I didn’t realize he would incorporate an actor’s input into the blocking.
Leguizamo: Sometimes he has an idea for a shot, of course, but he also makes things up in the moment. That’s the best creative process, and it’s a luxury that’s not afforded to many people. I’ve been in movies where the director says, “Stand here; you stand over there.” You look like puppets or marionettes. Your acting gets stiff and fake, and that kills creativity.
I want to talk about chemistry. When you’re not casting for chemistry, how do you know actors will click? John Papsidera, how did you know Matt and John would have that connection?
Papsidera: It’s about knowing an actor’s body of work. Matt was a touchstone for Chris and me because of what he did in Oppenheimer and the humor he brought to that role. If you read the script, that humor wasn’t on the page. It’s amazing how much so many actors in the film brought their characters to life. We talked about Matt’s everyman quality, but also the strength he carries as a leader and his ability to be a man among men. Those qualities made him interesting as Odysseus.
John, so many of your scenes depend on your connection with Matt. How did you build that chemistry?
Leguizamo: I’m a method actor. To play a blind man, I studied my friend Gina Velazquez, who is blind. I asked if I could follow her around and observe her. I also studied older people’s behavior. I don’t think you can fake chemistry on camera; you need rapport. Tom Holland and I spent time together playing a new racket game called padel in Sicily, and we shared meals. Matt and I spent a lot of time together. As I mentioned, he’d walk me back to my tent and guide me because I couldn’t see. I always had my hand on his shoulder. We were on a 900-foot cliff. Even Chris climbed it, but I couldn’t, because of the contacts, so they flew me up by helicopter. You could fall to your death. Matt helped me around, and that’s how we built our rapport and trust. It created this perfect relationship between the two of us.
With such a large ensemble, was any role particularly difficult to cast?
Papsidera: They’re all difficult in the sense that you want to get it right and you want the puzzle pieces fit. Agamemnon was a tough one. It could have gone wrong if we’d focused more on the body than the presence. We had conversations about what a larger-than-life warrior looks like. Does he have the shape of a WWE wrestler, or not? Those things were difficult. We were blessed to have access to some of the best actors in the world. It’s a luxury to have those conversations and put the pieces in place.
Leguizamo: Agamemnon was an incredible interpretation. Costume designer Ellen Mirojnick is here, and her choices made Agamemnon loom larger without obscuring Ben Safdie, the actor playing him. Because he’s a director/writer, he didn’t mind not having his face seen. If I were an actor and you never saw my face, I might be upset. But it made him more powerful and scary. It was a brilliant costume.
Papsidera: Some of the first Trojans you see were actors wearing helmets, so you couldn’t tell who they were. They didn’t know they were going to be wearing helmets.
Leguizamo: Jon Bernthal knew to take off his helmet real fast — he’s been in a couple of films.
Do you have a favorite scene or moment from the film?
Leguizamo: The fever-dream scene, laying there. I’d never achieved that kind of vulnerability and loss on film or revealed that kind of pain. That was unique for me. I was freezing on top of that cliff. We were basically in dresses, and after the fever dream Chris took off his coat and put it over me to keep me warm between takes. Matt said, “Oh, great. I’ve been in water for six months, in deserts and Iceland, and you give him the coat?”
John Papsidera, is there an actor you cast whose performance you’re especially proud of?
Papsidera: It’s hard to pick one; it’s like picking a favorite child. I’ve worked with Anne Hathaway multiple times, and I thought her work was brilliant. Samantha Morton has her own magic. Then I look at Lupita, Mia, Bernthal, and Tom Holland. The magnitude of those actors, what they did together, and what Chris orchestrated — it’s hard not to be overwhelmed by the entirety of it.
Leguizamo: I’ll say Travis Scott. His performance as the bard was so thrilling. When I got home, I had to call my son because I couldn’t use my phone on set.
What did you take away from the experience of making this film? What did you learn?
Leguizamo: I feel like I’ll never be in a movie as important or as beautiful as this. I hope there will be something else in my life that’s as beautiful, but this was special. I’m not the only one. When I talk to Matt, he says it was the best film. Even Charlize says she’s never been in another movie as beautiful. This is not a film, it’s a work of art, a piece of cinema history. The attention to detail, the script, the landscapes and the performances are so epic. I don’t know how I’ll ever match it. I’m not religious, but I feel blessed to have been part of it.
Papsidera: Hearing John’s stories is impactful. I can’t tell you how many actors from Odysseus’s crew wrote to me saying it was the most amazing experience. They said it revitalized their drive to be an actor and to work in this business. They never imagined they’d have that experience. I tell actors that the lives you get to experience are magical. It’s not easy being an actor; it’s a really hard life. But what you get to experience is extraordinary. People really took that in and relished it, especially younger actors and people who have been at it a long time. Jesse Garcia, Jimmy Gonzalez and the rest of that crew bonded and are still friends. It’s like they’ve been through war together.
Leguizamo: There were five Latino actors in one movie, and I couldn’t believe it. It was incredible. There were five Black actors, too. I’m a person of color, so I always count the people of color in a room. It’s just something we do. You count the Black and Latino people in movies. It makes me feel seen. Corey Hawkins, Travis Scott, Lupita Nyong’o, Mia Goth, Jesse Garcia, Jimmy Gonzalez.
Chris Nolan has set the bar high. What have you learned from working with him?
Papsidera: Striving for excellence and not accepting mediocrity, always trying to raise the bar. The commitment Chris has to the film is the most impressive thing. Everything else falls away because what he cares about at the end of the day is the picture he’s painting and the art he’s creating. Being part of that is an amazing gift, and I cherish it.
Leguizamo: As an artist, that’s a dangerous place to exist. Chasing perfection sometimes can shut you down and constipate your creativity. Frank Capra reportedly struggled with perfection after winning Oscars for It Happened One Night, and Orson Welles did, too.
Papsidera: Have you heard that Chris moved his Oscar out of his office when he started writing The Odyssey? His son asked him why, and Chris said he didn’t want to write with the Oscar staring at him — as if he wanted to remove the idea that the award was the goal, while still having the courage to push himself and get better.
Leguizamo: I think this is Chris’s magnum opus.
Papsidera: I don’t know how you top it in the way it was done.
